Chavs Have it Their Way

[samkydd]

There seem to be more and more incidents of teenage chavs attacking and killing innocent people in the UK, and I'm getting a little fed up of it. The latest incident has resulted in the arrest of two fifteen year olds and a sixteen year old on a charge of murder, but what's the betting that it will be reduced to manslaughter by the CPS and the little b*stards will get a minimal custodial sentence. If the murder charge does stick then it's probably time for the Law Courts to make a real example and sentence these youths to life, which should mean life! Otherwise we will hear similar reports of such incidents on the news even more frequently!

"Amy Newlove, 12, wrote a letter to her father Garry Newlove, 47, as he lay dying in hospital from head injuries. He was attacked after confronting a gang of more than 15 teenagers who were throwing stones at his car in Warrington, Cheshire. He was taken to Warrington hospital where he died on Sunday afternoon."

And then there are "respectable" people like barristers:

A drunken barrister who was best man at a wedding exposed himself to the bridesmaids before launching a "savage" and "ferocious" attack on a fellow guest after being confronted over his behaviour, a court was told.
Christopher Dunn, 40, who had earlier given a "disgusting" best man’s speech at the country hotel reception so offended the women and children around him that David Baird-Dean felt compelled to drag him away by the scruff of the neck.

Mr Baird-Dean, who inadvertently burst the buttons on his adversary's dress shirt and waistcoat, initially warned the lawyer that his behaviour warranted police being called to the Harewood Hall Hotel, Pateley Bridge, North Yorkshire.

But he relented when Dunn went back to the table and offered his fellow guests an abject apology, a jury at Preston Crown Court was told. Hours later, when the disturbance appeared to have dissipated, the lawyer allegedly squared up to Mr Baird-Dean, ushered him away to a sun terrace, and then launched a "savage" and "ferocious" attack upon him. Richard Haworth, prosecuting, said that Dunn initially knocked his victim to the ground with two blows to the head. He then knelt on his chest, pinned his arms to his sides, and punched him so violently and so frequently in the face that he lost consciousness. He was trying to land yet more punches on his victim even as fellow guests dragged him away.

Mr Baird-Dean suffered such severe injuries that surgeons had to use metal plates and screws to reattach his upper jaw and both eye sockets to his skull. The force used was comparable to that suffered in a high-speed car crash or inflicted in an attack with a baseball bat, Mr Haworth said. The court heard how on July 1 last year Dunn had been invited to be one of two best men at a ceremony to reaffirm the wedding vows of Rosalind and Russell Poole 10 years after they were married. It was a beautiful summer's day, and as the afternoon buffet wore on he moved to an outside table where most of the bridesmaids were sitting. The group, many of whom were drinking pink champagne, started to talk about tattoos. One guest noticed that Dunn had a tattoo which was partly visible through his dress shirt, and asked whether it depicted a white rose. Mr Haworth told the jury: "The defendant replied 'I’ll show you a white rose'. At which point he unzipped his trousers and pulled out his penis." Dunn then allegedly began waving his appendage about "in the belief that it was amusing or causing entertainment."

He had misjudged his audience, said Mr Haworth. All the guests who witnessed his performance took offence and Mr Baird-Dean moved in to remonstrate with him. The 48-year-old mechanic was a few feet away when he heard his wife and two of the adult bridesmaids suddenly complaining that Dunn had exposed himself.
"I turned around and couldn’t believe what I was seeing. There were children at the table and I thought it was only right that I confront him about it. "I moved quickly towards him and asked him to put it away. He didn’t react so I grabbed him by the scruff of the neck. "I told him he was disgusting and that it was a wedding. I probably said quite a few other things. It just wasn’t something you would expect at a wedding, especially with him supposed to be the best man. "He apologised to me, saying his child was ill, he'd had too much to drink, and that what he’d done wasn’t in his character. "He said that because he was a barrister he couldn't bear the police being called. "He asked whether if he apologised the police would not have to be called."

The guests duly accepted Dunn's apology and he and Mr Baird-Dean shook hands. However, as the evening wore on he began to boast to fellow guests about beating people up and "having scrapes with the law".
He claimed to have served with the SAS and on one occasion bitten a police dog while in Japan.
He became increasingly aggressive towards Mr Baird-Dean, blaming him for the fact that other guests were talking and laughing about him behind his back.
"He said he was going to get me later," Mr Baird-Dean told the jury. "He said he was going to jump me."
When interviewed by police about the attack, Dunn claimed he had acted in self defence.
He had been "terrified" when Mr Baird-Dean began punching him, and responded by striking his assailant only four times. Mr Haworth said the lawyer's account bore no resemblance to the Crown's case.
He alleged that he had sought to portray Mr Baird-Dean as the aggressor "because he realised the awful consequences of what he had done." Dunn, of Morley, Leeds, denies a charge of causing grievous bodily harm with intent. He has similarly pleaded not guilty to an alternative charge of inflicting grievous bodily harm.

The trial continues.

[DB7]

Sometimes you despair at the world. I was reading the case of young Leticia Wright and you wonder how parents could treat a child in such a way. Also, whilst the Maddy campaign remains high-profile and newsworthy - it depressing to think 7 more kids have gone missing without a fraction of the media spotlight.

[samkydd]

Originally Posted by DB7 Sometimes you despair at the world. I was reading the case of young Leticia Wright and you wonder how parents could treat a child in such a way. Also, whilst the Maddy campaign remains high-profile and newsworthy - it depressing to think 7 more kids have gone missing without a fraction of the media spotlight.

Yes and a two year old was stabbed to death in Barking, which was reported on the news this morning.

I used to be anti-death penalty but these days I think it would seem the only solution. To ensure that there are no miscarriages of justice, perhaps a minimum of ten years in solitary first then hang! Plenty of time to get an appeal heard then, or for new evidence to come forward (and also plenty of time for the guilty to reflect on his/her crimes).

[DB7]

Originally Posted by samkydd I used to be anti-death penalty but these days I think it would seem the only solution. To ensure that there are no miscarriages of justice, perhaps a minimum of ten years in solitary first then hang! Plenty of time to get an appeal heard then, or for new evidence to come forward (and also plenty of time for the guilty to reflect on his/her crimes).

Calls for capital punishment in such cases are understandable but past miscarriages are well documented and I'm convinced it's not a deterrent. Those Asbo's can go to the bin too, just let the police do their job, if somebody is breaking the law or being anti-social, nick em.

I'd rather see the government reverse Thatcher's beliefs and actively instill a sense of community and parental responsibility once again.

[Santonix]

I seem to recall we have had a similar discussion before under "Rillington Place". I regret to say that until we start to take stronger stand against these thugs who believe that they can wreck peoples lives at the risk of no real punishment to themselves, this sort of thing will continue to happen.

[Tony Pendrey]

I too used to be against the death penalty. As time has passed I started to re-consider on the basis of what we should expect from the death penalty. IE Is it to deter, or is it for retirbution.

Does the death penalty deter people from comitting murder and suchlike ?

Very debatable.

Is it an effective form of retribution.

Yes.

[Moor Larkin]

Didn't Stanley Kubrick make a movie about this back in the 1970's........



YouTube - Shoot The Chav!!

[samkydd]

Originally Posted by Tony Pendrey I too used to be against the death penalty. As time has passed I started to re-consider on the basis of what we should expect from the death penalty. IE Is it to deter, or is it for retirbution. Does the death penalty deter people from comitting murder and suchlike ? Very debatable. Is it an effective form of retribution. Yes.

I seem to recall an interview with a reformed thug who stated that one of the reasons that he and his mates were marauding round the streets like a scene from A Clockwork Orange, destroying property and hurting people was that the chances of being caught were minimal. If caught they knew that usually they'd only get a fine, which they never bothered to pay anyway, but more often than not Community Service, which is a joke, or a meaningless Police Caution!

[penfold]

The more I hear about modern forensics, the less I want to rely on them for determining the life or death of a human being. If we have the death penalty enforced, there is no way back. 'Barry Bulsara', convicted for killing Jill Dando, may yet prove to have been fitted up by a combination of modern forensics and a police force, eager for a result, arresting the local nutter.

[image45]

<Yes and a two year old was stabbed to death in Barking, which was reported on the news this morning. >

Yes that was one of the 'Unhappy' News headlines that I woke upto this morning.

Whats going when things like this are still happening in the 21st Century

[Santonix]

I get the feeling this could be a lengthy debate................

[Moor Larkin]

Originally Posted by Santonix I get the feeling this could be a lengthy debate................

The King George's Jubilee Trust report of 1939, The Needs of Youth, summed up a catalogue of complaint that is uncannily familiar: "Relaxation of parental control, decay of religious influence, and the transplantation of masses of young persons to housing estates where there is little scope for recreation and plenty for mischief ... The problem is a serious challenge, the difficulty of which is intensified by the extension of freedom which, for better or worse, has been given to youth in the last generation."
This panic over youth disorder is nothing new, says Geoffrey Pearson | Society | SocietyGuardian.co.uk

Yup......

[samkydd]

Originally Posted by Moor Larkin The King George's Jubilee Trust report of 1939, The Needs of Youth, summed up a catalogue of complaint that is uncannily familiar: "Relaxation of parental control, decay of religious influence, and the transplantation of masses of young persons to housing estates where there is little scope for recreation and plenty for mischief ... The problem is a serious challenge, the difficulty of which is intensified by the extension of freedom which, for better or worse, has been given to youth in the last generation." Yup......

I suppose World War 2 must have sorted a few of them out from 1939 then!

Is National Service the answer (the duration of which to be served in Iraq or Afghanistan)? It still exists in some EU countries.

I suppose if all else fails we could adopt similar policies of our closest Far Eastern trading partner:

China has sentenced dozens of drug dealers to death to mark International Anti-Drugs Day.

Some 16 people received death sentences in a trial in the city of Chongqing on Saturday and a man was executed in Shanghai, said Xinhua news agency. Xinhua's website, Xinhuanet, said on Friday executions had also been carried out in several other provinces.
Human Rights group Amnesty International urged China to abolish the death penalty in drugs cases. Xinhuanet said "dozens" of dealers were sentenced to death across China in the run-up to the international anti-drugs day. The news agency said that a man was executed in Shanghai on Saturday for smuggling in 1.8kg of heroin from Burma (Myanmar). Executions were also carried out in the provinces of Yunnan, Guangdong, Zhejiang, Shaanxi and Xinjiang, it added. Most cases involved heroin, opium and ephedrine.

Amnesty International urged Beijing to abandon the policy of imposing the death penalty.
"We have seen an annual spree of executions in China in the run-up to UN International Day Against Drug Abuse and Illicit Trafficking in previous years," it said.
"Yet no convincing evidence has ever been produced that the death penalty deters would-be traffickers and users more effectively than any other punishment."
China borders south-east Asia's Golden Triangle and Afghanistan - two of the world's biggest opium production areas.

[Steve Crook]

Originally Posted by Tony Pendrey Does the death penalty deter people from comitting murder and suchlike ?

No, because hardly anybody who commits a crime expects to get caught. And that was always the case

Steve

[Steve Crook]

Originally Posted by samkydd Is National Service the answer (the duration of which to be served in Iraq or Afghanistan)? It still exists in some EU countries.

The Army are strongly against it. They are a highly specialised, technological force. They don't want any old riff-raff off the streets. And they want them for more than a few years so that they get a return on the investment in training them

Steve