Madonna, the scholar of history....

[Arfur Teacake]

I love it when you acquiesce!

Next!

Your beloved Queen Mother and her stutterin' husband were almost as big on the Nazis as Wallis and Grommit were... But they put on a face for the war effort, doncha know...

If you don't believe me look it up.

The next thing your be saying is what a poor misunderstood,nice guy Napoleon was

[CaptainWaggett]

Given that there's a distinct possibility that the film may not be very good , does it need two threads ?

http://www.britmovie.co.uk/forums/la...09769-w-e.html

[Steve Crook]

Given that there's a distinct possibility that the film may not be very good , does it need two threads ?

http://www.britmovie.co.uk/forums/la...09769-w-e.html

I thought this one was about Madonna more than about the film

Steve

[Mark O]

What's Wallis Simpson been "in the frame" for recently?

It's more that government papers are held to be secret for 70 years. There's always a flurry of stories like this when they are released in the new year

Steve

The new film Steve, W.E., whenever a commercial film or TV drama is made about a person it usually generates public interest in learning more about them, it does with me, plus I have huge admiration for Andrea Riseborough's acting ability, an 'everywoman' for today.

[Mark O]

I love it when you acquiesce!

Next!

Your beloved Queen Mother and her stutterin' husband were almost as big on the Nazis as Wallis and Grommit were... But they put on a face for the war effort, doncha know...

If you don't believe me look it up.

another groan................Is that why the then Queen Elizabeth had a knitting circle which gathered at Buckingham Palace to make woolly things for the boys then?

The Queen Mother and Princess Margaret never did visit Germany, when Princess Margaret was asked if she would like to make a visit there, she replied "certainly not, they killed Mummy's brother (Fergus) and drove the King to an early grave".

Because I acquiesce doesn't mean I submit to the general train of thought on a thread, I just wish to avoid argument and point scoring, though if you would care to point me in the direction of an article portraying our Wartime King and Queen as the Nazi sympathisers you allege they are, I'll be more than happy to read it.

[icetorch]

Germany, December 1942.

Man in doctor's surgery: "Doctor, Doctor, it hurts when I do that!" (Raises right arm).

Doctor: "Well, don't do it, then!"


After 1942, Hitler was rarely seen in public.

With apologies to Tommy Cooper.

[batman]

.. if you would care to point me in the direction of an article portraying our Wartime King and Queen as the Nazi sympathisers you allege they are, I'll be more than happy to read it.

link: “King’s” view on Jews fact or smear? | Bloggish | Jewish Journal

[Mark O]

link: “King’s” view on Jews fact or smear? | Bloggish | Jewish Journal

Thanks for the link Bats but I'm still very sceptical about the whole thing, it's feasible the King and Government knew of the Concentration camps but what could they do about it?..........It can be compared to the conditions of Turkish Orphanages of today, we know about it but what can we do?...........absolutely nothing, same then as now.

[GRAEME]

another groan................Is that why the then Queen Elizabeth had a knitting circle which gathered at Buckingham Palace to make woolly things for the boys then?

Don't be silly, Mark! Things really are more complicated that they are in your 2D world of patriots and villains!

I'm saying they were a bit fascist - like many of their class - not traitors! I didn't say they would have wanted Hitler winning the war! Once it began they did their obvious duty. But they were sympathisers before the war and would have accepted a pact with Germany. They supported appeasement - it was a point of view that many did support. They resolutely hated Churchill and his view that we should stand up to Hitler.

As for pointing you in the direction of links and so on - no. Do your own research. The truth is out there - if you dare to look for it...

[Mark O]

Don't be silly, Mark! Things really are more complicated that they are in your 2D world of patriots and villains!

I'm saying they were a bit fascist - like many of their class - not traitors! I didn't say they would have wanted Hitler winning the war! Once it began they did their obvious duty. But they were sympathisers before the war and would have accepted a pact with Germany. They supported appeasement - it was a point of view that many did support. They resolutely hated Churchill and his view that we should stand up to Hitler.

As for pointing you in the direction of links and so on - no. Do your own research. The truth is out there - if you dare to look for it...

It's not a case of 'dare' Graeme, I simply can't be bothered, and they 'hated' Churchill?............I find that very hard to believe, true, I know Queen Elizabeth supported appeasement, probably because she had first hand experience of loss (in War) herself.

As for living in a '2D world' if I put it to you that the bombing of Nagasaki and Hiroshima, abhorrent as it was, actually saved allied lives you wouldn't believe me would you, maybe you live in a 2D world yourself.

[GRAEME]

It's not a case of 'dare' Graeme, I simply can't be bothered, and they 'hated' Churchill?............I find that very hard to believe, true, I know Queen Elizabeth supported appeasement, probably because she had first hand experience of loss (in War) herself.

As for living in a '2D world' if I put it to you that the bombing of Nagasaki and Hiroshima, abhorrent as it was, actually saved allied lives you wouldn't believe me would you, maybe you live in a 2D world yourself.

Perhaps, you'd like to start a thread on ethics, Mark. Then you could treat us to your wisdom in that area...

Queen Mum may have had sterling reasons for not wanting a war - so did many people. But that doesn't remove the point that she was ALSO a Nazi sympathiser - by which I mean that she (and husband) agreed with many of Hitler's policies. Appeasement is a no-brainer, if you don't actually think a Nazi Europe was a bad thing, and the British Empire could do worse than do a deal with them.

[Richard_in_wales]

Back to Madonna, I'm no great fan but did enjoy the way she had a pop at the talentless Ricky Gervais

Madonna Beats Ricky Gervais At His Own Game At The Golden Globes | PerezHilton.com

[Mark O]

Perhaps, you'd like to start a thread on ethics, Mark. Then you could treat us to your wisdom in that area...

Queen Mum may have had sterling reasons for not wanting a war - so did many people. But that doesn't remove the point that she was ALSO a Nazi sympathiser - by which I mean that she (and husband) agreed with many of Hitler's policies. Appeasement is a no-brainer, if you don't actually think a Nazi Europe was a bad thing, and the British Empire could do worse than do a deal with them.

I don't think so Graeme, both to your suggestion of an ethics thread and that the Royals sympathised with Nazis, I really can't be bothered anymore to debate with you on your obviously biased slant on the whole subject, what with you being staunchly anti-monarchist, of course you have a one-sided view, appeasement or no appeasement in the event we did declare War and the Nazis and their Japanese co-horts were eventually defeated, that's what matters at the end of the day.

I hope you enjoy yourself locked away in your lavatory during Jubilee week, I shall be reveling in joyful celebration myself, don't have much of that sort of thing in Countries that are Republics do they, long live the Queen!

[Freddy]

Back to Madonna, I'm no great fan but did enjoy the way she had a pop at the talentless Ricky Gervais

According to the man himself he's Britain's biggest comedian.

"Nervous? Don't be," he grinned at the room-full of glitterati at the top of the show. "Tonight you get Britain's biggest comedian, hosting the world's second-biggest awards show, on America's third-biggest network."

I do hope his tongue was in his cheek when he said that.

[Richard_in_wales]

Indeed, the man has become a legend in his own mind.

[ShirlGirl]

I don't think so Graeme, both to your suggestion of an ethics thread and that the Royals sympathised with Nazis, I really can't be bothered anymore to debate with you on your obviously biased slant on the whole subject, what with you being staunchly anti-monarchist, of course you have a one-sided view,

The thing is, Mark, there's nothing biased about Graeme's opinion - it happens to be well-documented fact, whereas your opinion, I'm afraid, is based on nothing but wishful thinking. Sorry, but you are the biased one when it comes to the royal family.

[dremble wedge]

Madonna may be shaky on the vagaries of 1930s history but I'll warrant Eric Hobsbawm's version of La Isla Bonita isn't up to much either

[Mark O]

The thing is, Mark, there's nothing biased about Graeme's opinion - it happens to be well-documented fact, whereas your opinion, I'm afraid, is based on nothing but wishful thinking. Sorry, but you are the biased one when it comes to the royal family.

Yes, anyone who is a fan of something is undoubtedly biased towards whatever it is they are a fan of, Graeme is biased towards republicism and is therefore is going to look for any supposed dirt on what he so strongly despises, but everyone is entitled to their opinion in a free society (even though there's no such thing as 'society' you get my drift!)

To me a Monarchy brings unity and cohesion to a Nation, the last Country to depose theirs was Afghanistan in 1973, hardly a peoples paradise since, Afghan life ticked along nicely in it's own traditional way back in the day, plus one more thing to consider in conclusion, if it wasn't for Queen Elizabeth 1, Great Britain would be a Colony of Spain today, seems a good enough reason to condone a Crowned head of State to me.

[Mr Sloane]

if it wasn't for Queen Elizabeth 1, Great Britain would be a Colony of Spain today, seems a good enough reason to condone a Crowned head of State to me.

I think that even Liz one knew that the major reason the Armada failed was the weather, the medal was commissioned 'Jehovah blew with His wind and they were scattered' as celebration. Even back in the 16th century they knew they were saved by the weather ( even if they thought a little old protestant god had invoked it).

[Rowdon]

Yes, anyone who is a fan of something is undoubtedly biased towards whatever it is they are a fan of, Graeme is biased towards republicism and is therefore is going to look for any supposed dirt on what he so strongly despises, but everyone is entitled to their opinion in a free society (even though there's no such thing as 'society' you get my drift!)

To me a Monarchy brings unity and cohesion to a Nation, the last Country to depose theirs was Afghanistan in 1973, hardly a peoples paradise since, Afghan life ticked along nicely in it's own traditional way back in the day, plus one more thing to consider in conclusion, if it wasn't for Queen Elizabeth 1, Great Britain would be a Colony of Spain today, seems a good enough reason to condone a Crowned head of State to me.

I take all your points, Mark, but I have to agree with Shirlgirl that your posts come across a bit as "I don't believe it - where's the proof?", so people (and Graeme) try to point out a bit of proof, which you reject and say "Where else is the proof?" - but you don't supply any proof that your point of view is based on anything except a feeling of bonhomie towards the royals.
And that bit about Elizabeth I: Are you saying that if it had been a different monarch we would have been invaded? Or are you saying that if we had been a republic we would have been unable to find a leader, and to fight off any invaders - that it had to be a royal? And if we had been a republic, would Spain have been a republic too? And if we had both been republics, would the result have been the same, or would they have been unable to organise without a royal of their own? How much history are we allowed to hypothesise about? And was Elizabeth great because she was a great leader or because she was a crowned head of state?
I have trouble convincing my students here in Spain to refer to the All-Too-Vincible Armada rather than the Invincible Armada, so I'm interested in your input.