Lord Lucan

[Tigon Man]

I wonder what happens to large evidence IE the car in unsolved cases?

do they keep it? as today it could serve up a wealth of DNA

I doubt the police would have kept it Arfur, chances are they would have returned it to it's owner Lucan's friend Michael Stoop after they had finished with it. Although only eight years old at the time of the murder, the Ford Corsair was generally described as an 'old banger' and a second car to Stoop's Mercedes. The interior had been heavily bloodstained and it would be hard to imagine Stoop wanting to hold on to it after all that had happened, it was probably scrapped long ago.
But you are right, had they had DNA in 1974 it would have yielded a wealth of information.

[Moor Larkin]

....... had they had DNA in 1974 it would have yielded a wealth of information.

It seemed pretty obvious without the DNA, back in 1975..........

Daytona Beach Morning Journal - Google News Archive Search

Lucan's quoted letter is equally as obvious, as indicating that he wasn't going to be around much longer.....

[Arfur Teacake]

It seemed pretty obvious without the DNA, back in 1975..........

Daytona Beach Morning Journal - Google News Archive Search

Lucan's quoted letter is equally as obvious, as indicating that he wasn't going to be around much longer.....

Thanks Tigon & Moor

interesting article
as it also says none of Lucan's finger prints were found at the murder scene or in the car.Obviously he could have had gloves on.

But the whole case for Lucan being the murderer and whittled off to some remote spot is based on the assumption that everyone he knew was an inhuman bastard who would say something like "don't worry old bean if you have battered someone to death, the wrong person too, we are going to look after you because your an Etonian".

We also expected to believe that he was quite willing to have his friend Stoop implicated in murder, by using his Ford and the registration being possibly seen at the scene of the crime.

We are also expected to believe that he drove 70 odd miles down to Newhaven with the murder weapon still in the car, whereas he had chances to get rid of it.

We are then expected to believe that he then wanders around Newhaven, bloodstained and obviously somewhat disorientated,having killed the wrong person and now looking for his mysterious boat- and nobody sees anything.

[billy bentley]

A few years back I read John Pearson's "The Gamblers". I was disappointed that the book did not pack the punch of his Kray Brothers classic, but upon reflection I think it gave a pretty good account of the events and characters involved in the Lord Lucan story. I have no idea how the book was received in the UK.

[Moor Larkin]

Seaford: Human skull found on beach - Local News - Eastbourne Herald

The fact that bleached bones can turn up on a beach three miles away from Newhaven and not be *suspicious* tells you all you need to know about the potential vastness of La Manche.

Sorry to be a party pooper.

[Tigon Man]

Seaford: Human skull found on beach - Local News - Eastbourne Herald

The fact that bleached bones can turn up on a beach three miles away from Newhaven and not be *suspicious* tells you all you need to know about the potential vastness of La Manche.

Sorry to be a party pooper.

Sorry if anyone is eating or has just eaten, with regard to your post Moor, Sussex fishermen are used to finding corpses dragged into their nets. So to avoid having to report to the harbour authorities and having their expensive catch declared contaminated, they often stick a boat hook into the bloated stomach and sink the body back to the bottom of the Channel.
Lord L if he had taken the ferry crossing and jumped overboard in mid channel would likely never be found if his body had been dredged up and chucked back in the sea again.

[Arfur Teacake]

So ok lets assume what your all implying that 'Lucan did the murder and then jumped off the ferry'

If Lucan did plan the murder of his wife and it all went according plan- how on earth did he think
he was going to get away with it?

He would have been suspect No.1 from day 1
The gambling debts.
The deteriorating marriage.
His wife having loads more money than him.
The borrowing of the car.
A dodgy alibi.
would have all been high points to the prosecution...............was he that stupid?

[Moor Larkin]

So ok lets assume what your all implying that 'Lucan did the murder and then jumped off the ferry'

If Lucan did plan the murder of his wife and it all went according plan- how on earth did he think
he was going to get away with it?

Friends in high places?...

He is noted in that report as being the first peer ever to be found guilty of murder in British history!!

I would guess that there might have been expectation of some sort of perverse support for the killing of the slightly batty wife, who was *ruining his life*. The kind of *old boys* society he lived around might be expected to consider a toff doing in his bitch of a wife as being almost justifiable homicide....

However bashing the poor nanny's head in was.... just not cricket old boy........ a little beyond the Pale.....

I think that disaster for him, of killing Sandra Rivett, was what he was referring to when he wrote about *coincidences* defeating him.

[billy farmer]

[billy farmer]

Here is the link to an interesting article about Lord Lucan - http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/real-li...ingham-1311717

[judylou]

Didn't he just take a little boat out to sea and scuttle it, drowning in the process..? (Given that he was guilty)

[Arfur Teacake]

Here is the link to an interesting article about Lord Lucan - http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/real-li...ingham-1311717

In the past people have assumed that as a 'toff' he was some sort of sub human species with a network of sub human species to protect him..... therefore guilty as hell.

However this article has confirmed some of the doubts I have had, that it would have been very hard as a human being to commit these acts with his children he adored upstairs. You could understand a row leading to violence but not all the palava he had suppose to have gone through.
Also even without lights it would be very difficult to mistake two people you knew very well, as its not all about sight...and why would the victim be walking about in the dark anyway?

I think Lucan did go down to Newhaven, but he was not driving as he was already dead.

[Tigon Man]

After studying the case for years, these days I'm drawn to the theory that it might have been a staged robbery gone wrong. I find it hard to believe that much as he hated Veronica his estranged wife, Lucan would murder her or arrange to have her murdered. The psychological effect on his much loved children would have been immense and I can't believe he would have wanted to put them through the ordeal.

Knowing that Thursday was Sandra Rivett's regular night off and that his wife and children would be tucked away in the top floor nursery of the five storey house, he could be fairly sure that the lower part of the house would be unoccupied. His wife habitually had a cup of tea at nine o'clock, but this would be made in the nursery kitchen on the same floor rather than the ground floor main kitchen.

With the lower floors empty, it would have been easy for an associate with the aid of a key given to him by Lucan, to sneak in and out with the family silver. Lucan could claim the insurance and pay off his massive gambling debts in one go. This might also explain the canvas sack that Sandra Rivett's body was discovered in, a canvas sack is useful for carting off the family silver, but being porous not much good for carrying off a blood stained body.

It has to be remembered that Lucan owed a lot of money to some pretty unsavoury characters at other clubs as well as the Clermont, perhaps some sort of mutual arrangement was made, where sone villains bagged the silver and Lucan the insurance money, but it all went wrong when Sandra Rivett switched her night off and got in the way of the robbery. The murderer then tried to flee in the getaway car (The Corsair borrowed by Lucan) then found that Lucan had driven off in it.

Arfur you make an interesting point about Sandra Rivett walking around in the darkness. We know that the stairwell lightbulb had been removed because it was found on a chair. Why then did she walk down a narrow spiral staircase in the dark, wearing heels and carrying a tray of crockery? It's just one of those oddities of the case that will probably never be resolved.

[Mr Sloane]

Please - he murdered Sandra Rivett in the mistaken impression it was his wife. His mates got together and helped him escape the country. The nasty bastard is now probably dead.
End of.

[Arfur Teacake]

Please - he murdered Sandra Rivett in the mistaken impression it was his wife. His mates got together and helped him escape the country. The nasty bastard is now probably dead.
End of.

As I said the official line is quite believable to those who assume that 'toffs' are a sub human species, incapable of any human emotion and just one driving ambition to 'look after their own'.

The fact was, the man was barely capable of looking after himself let alone making his way across Europe and ending up running some plantation or something in outer Timbucktoo (or somewhere) for 30 years or so...without drawing the slightest bit of attention to himself.

If you do assume that his 'friends' were human, then you will know that the quickest way to loose 'friends' as a man whether your rich or poor is to not have money,be in debt and not have a skill that will help you earn some. So the official line that he was supported in some wild jungle somewhere by the toff illuminati just because he was a fantastic chap amongst toffs seems feeble to me.The fact was, even amongst the toff set he was regarded as a waster.

[Moor Larkin]

I thought the official line was that he murdered the nanny by accident and then disappeared, and was almost certainly dead in the channel. I suppose the way Ronald Biggs turned up might have made the Plod wary of being too certain in public, without a body to rely on, but the Lucan Mystery always seemed more of a media story than one the officials might have believed in. Around that time the whole Stonehouse case was still fresh, so it was apparent that rich (powerful) men could disappear, so I guess they had to leave the Lucan matter open too.

I must confess all the recent "daddy loved me" stuff from the grown-up son sounds a trifle odd, considering the son has abandoned his poor mother, who seems to have suffered horrifically from the whole saga. I guess he may have more of his father in him than just his looks and maybe he has a curious grasp on human empathy - not surprising I suppose, given what daddy did to him - gambling all the money away and then vanishing, leaving mummy with her head smashed open (whether or not he actually smashed it for her).

[billy farmer]

Here is the link to another interesting article about Lord Lucan - http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/real-li...ingham-1315823

[Arfur Teacake]

Here is the link to another interesting article about Lord Lucan - http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/real-li...ingham-1315823

Interesting potted history there- one article says 'the police drove the car back to London'- well that helped preserve any evidence didn't it?
The car in the picture has a front wing trim missing, mud spray, the back door not quite closed- as if maybe it been off a proper road lost the trim against foilage and then dropped something off out the back.

[billy farmer]

A new series of Fred Dinenage: Murder Casebook, begins on the Crime and Investigation channel on October 7th 2012, the first episode is called The Mystery of Lord Lucan.

http://www.crimeandinvestigation.co....enage:-Murder-

[billy farmer]

A new series of Fred Dinenage: Murder Casebook, begins on the Crime and Investigation channel on October 7th 2012, the first episode is called The Mystery of Lord Lucan.

http://www.crimeandinvestigation.co....enage:-Murder-

Did anyone watch the above Documentary last night, i did and found it to be a very interesting programme, Fred Dinenage is a very good host.