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Thread: Marilyn Monroe

  1. #1
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    Is there any examples of how Marilyn Monroe doesn't fit in with the male gaze, in Mulveys femanist film theory?

  2. #2
    Senior Member Country: Australia
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    Good Lord......

  3. #3
    Senior Member Country: Great Britain Mark O's Avatar
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    Link to previously unseen pics of Marilyn from 1952, even in monochrome her skin is luminous.........


    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/ar...x-Marilyn.html

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    Super Moderator Country: UK batman's Avatar
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    I don't understand the question!

  5. #5
    Senior Member Country: UK agutterfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2lcould View Post
    Is there any examples of how Marilyn Monroe doesn't fit in with the male gaze, in Mulveys femanist film theory?
    You'd either:
    a) Have to find one of her films directed by a woman (I don't think there were any)
    b) Find responses by women to how they perceived Marilyn Monroe (try Camille Paglia)
    c) Or argue that Mulvey's theory is solipsistic (i.e. dominance of men in culture means that she can argue all responses to Marilyn are through the prism of the male gaze, therefore there can be no counter argument, is just one example) and simplistic, e.g. how do gay males respond to Marilyn, to what extent is Marilyn perceived as a 'star' (ie. fetishised and/or reified) and does this perception change depending on whether the star is male or female?

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    Senior Member Country: Australia lllIIlllIIlllIIl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 21could
    …Mulvey's femanist film theory?...
    Wiki tells me that Laura Mulvey (born 1941) is a British feminist film theorist, educated at St Hilda's College and currently professor of film and media studies at Birkbeck, University of London.

    She co-wrote and co-directed the following with With Peter Wollen, her husband—
    Penthesilea: Queen of the Amazons (1974),
    Riddles of the Sphinx (1977 - perhaps their most influential film),
    AMY! (1980),
    Crystal Gazing (1982),
    Frida Kahlo and Tina Modotti (1982),
    The Bad Sister.
    Disgraced Monuments, which she co-directed with Mark Lewis.

    Laura_Mulvey_Fot_Mariusz_Kubik_July_24_2010_06.JPG

  7. #7
    Senior Member Country: England phil's Avatar
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    Oh, her!

  8. #8
    Senior Member Country: Great Britain Mark O's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phil View Post
    Oh, her!
    Looked her up on wiki to see what she was all about, seems to have a chip on her shoulder, I've always thought if you've got it (as Marilyn and Mamie) then flaunt it (if you so wish).


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laura_Mulvey

  9. #9
    Senior Member Country: England phil's Avatar
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    Cheers Mark, she must be a laugh a minute.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Country: Australia lllIIlllIIlllIIl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark O View Post
    ….I've always thought if you've got it (as Marilyn and Mamie) then flaunt it ….
    Laura Mulvey may very well be flaunting it. But unfortunately I've not yet seen—
    Penthesilea, Riddles of the Sphinx, Amy, Crystal Gazing, Frida Kahlo, Bad Sister nor Disgraced Monuments.

  11. #11
    Senior Member Country: Great Britain Mark O's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lllIIlllIIlllIIl View Post
    Laura Mulvey may very well be flaunting it. But unfortunately I've not yet seen—
    Penthesilea, Riddles of the Sphinx, Amy, Crystal Gazing, Frida Kahlo, Bad Sister nor Disgraced Monuments.

    Neither have I, I didn't mean Laura was 'flaunting it', goodness no, she seems to be against that sort of thing, I was thinking more of the 'sex kitten' type should feel free to flaunt it if they want to without being made to feel naughty by these feminists, not that I know much about feminists, I don't think I want to, Germaine Greer never has a good word to say about the male of the species when I've seen her on TV or read an article.

  12. #12
    Senior Member Country: Spain Rowdon's Avatar
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    2Icould didn't make a huge effort with his/her question, so it should be no surprise that people aren't making a huge effort to address the question in their responses (agutterfan excepted).

    But why all the anti-feminist nudging here? I mean, (without wishing to offend my esteemed colleagues on these excellent boards) why shouldn't a feminist theorist and film-maker be witty and fun in company? What work of hers specifically looks boring? And Germaine Greer has had plenty good to say about men. She loves men. And I've always found her a good guest on chat shows or wherever she crops up. And Mulvey is married too, so presumably she thinks men are OK. Most of the women I know are feminists. I would think it weird to find a woman who wasn't, on some level.

    Two things about Marilyn Monroe:
    Boy George referred to her as "a glorified transvestite" which is a meaningless but somehow interesting quote that Mulvey might like. If s/he exists.
    She is, in my opinion, one of the greatest comic actors in film. Her expressions, her timing, her naturalness in front of the camera ... she is without doubt one of my favourite actors/actresses - consistently brilliant in every film she made, whatever behind the scenes problems she may have caused. Discussion of Monroe always (understandably) centres around her uniquely powerful sexuality, but we should never lose sight of the fact that she was just about as good as comedy actors get.

    Blimey - this is me in the morning after toast and tea - can you imagine how ranty and boring I'm going to be over Christmas with whiskey and relatives. Wish them luck.

  13. #13
    Senior Member Country: UK eyeloveTV's Avatar
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    There was an episode of Father Ted last night in which the milkman of Craggy Island mistook Mrs Doyle for Marilyn Monroe .

    eyeloveTV

  14. #14
    Senior Member Country: Australia lllIIlllIIlllIIl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2lcould View Post
    Is there any examples of how Marilyn Monroe doesn't fit in with the male gaze, in Mulveys femanist film theory?
    Yes, in The Misfits.

    This film seemed very disjointed and washed-out somehow to me. As if the director was drunk or the editor was obliged to compile something out of the off-cuts. It seemed like a 'non-Marilyn Monroe' movie to me.

  15. #15
    Senior Member Country: Spain Rowdon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lllIIlllIIlllIIl View Post
    Yes, in The Misfits.

    This film seemed very disjointed and washed-out somehow to me. As if the director was drunk or the editor was obliged to compile something out of the off-cuts. It seemed like a 'non-Marilyn Monroe' movie to me.
    Agreed: if you list the actors, director, writer, story, setting etc, it looks like it should be one of the greats. What happened?

  16. #16
    Senior Member Country: Australia lllIIlllIIlllIIl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2lcould View Post
    …. the male gaze, in Mulveys femanist film theory?
    I've not yet read the feminist film theory on the so-called "male gaze".

    But I wonder how Laura Mulvey views the "male gaze" as gazed by John Schlesinger, Lindsay Anderson, Tony Richardson and James Ivory.

  17. #17
    Senior Member Country: England mrs_emma_peel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rowdon View Post
    She is, in my opinion, one of the greatest comic actors in film. Her expressions, her timing, her naturalness in front of the camera ... she is without doubt one of my favourite actors/actresses - consistently brilliant in every film she made, whatever behind the scenes problems she may have caused. Discussion of Monroe always (understandably) centres around her uniquely powerful sexuality, but we should never lose sight of the fact that she was just about as good as comedy actors get.
    I totally agree, Marilyn's acting ability as comedienne or dramatic actress has always been vastly under-rated. I could not imagine anyone giving a finer performances than hers in Niagara, The Seven Year Itch, Bus Stop, The Prince and the Showgirl - where she out-performed Olivier, or Some Like It Hot. She said about her perfectionism - my performance is going to be on film forever - so I want to get it absolutely right.

    Bus Stop, was the role in which she down-played her sexuality to brilliantly portray a struggling showgirl - she managed to sing Black Magic just slightly off-key (very difficult) but was determined to fulfill her dreams.

    Her dramatic acting talents were never given the films she deserved. She gave an extraordinarily fine performance her only major Hitchcockian style thriller, Niagara - I thought she would have made a fabulous Hitchcock blonde. Imagine Marilyn in the shower scene in Psycho or opposite Cary Grant for a second time in North by Northwest. Hitch was on her short-list of favourite directors.

    She desperately wanted the part of Cleopatra and was even photographed dressed and made-up in the role - and of course, looked stunning. But the studios and press refused to take her seriously.
    Emma


    Photographed by Richard Avedon
    Last edited by mrs_emma_peel; 24-12-13 at 11:56 AM.

  18. #18
    Senior Member Country: England phil's Avatar
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    I know I'm in the minority but I was never much of a fan of Marilyn Monroe and being a big fan of Hitchcock movies I breathe a sigh of relief she was never cast in any. I don't think Hitch would have put up with her anyway.

  19. #19
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    Hi,
    Although I have looked upon Marilyn, as most men have, as a very attractive woman. But irrespective of gender, she was still a flesh and blood human being. And sometimes this has been overlooked. Particularly by the media, after she lost her baby.

    Alan French.

  20. #20
    Senior Member Country: Spain Rowdon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrs_emma_peel View Post
    Imagine Marilyn in the shower scene in Psycho
    Wow. I won't be able to sleep tonight.

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