Some uncomfortable reading for feminists

[julian_craster]

Some uncomfortable reading for those feminists who portray men as 'the problem'.....



The shadow of female sex abusers - Times Online

[Rowdon]

I've never heard anyone say that "men are the problem" when it comes to child abuse.

Anyone who did say that would not be a feminist, they would just be ignorant.

If anyone expresses the idea that this is a mainly male problem, then I suppose they are referring to numbers, which do seem to support the idea of these rings being mainly run by and for men. Mainly being the operative word - neither sex has exclusive rights to madness.



I would hazard a guess based on what I've heard that more men are involved than women, and I don't even know what "feminism" means in this context.



The whole area (the crimes, our current fear of any adult being involved with children on any level, trying to stop insanity by filling in forms etc.) is just too depressing for words. And I don't think "feminism" comes into it. Read the comments under the article - all a bit knee-jerk.

[James Fox]

I went to school with a guy who was sexually abused by his mother. Was def something he continued to struggle with later in life. Very sad.

[julian_craster]

Another case involving a female abuser .......in the seriousness of the crimes and the age of the victims, how does this compare with the Polanski case?



Daily Telegraph:

Female 'predatory paedophile' abused children in public lavatories - Telegraph



Polanski victim urges end to case

BBC News

BBC NEWS | Entertainment | Polanski victim urges end to case

[batman]

Abuse by females (usually the mother) is often to be found in the case histories of offenders who have committed sexual offences themselves. There is no gender exclusivity with regard to who is responsible for such crimes, however the greater majority of reported sexual offences have been committed by men.



I find the use of words such as 'madness and 'insanity' rather innappropriate with regard to such a discussion as this. Sex offenders most commonly have 'disordered personalities', which are not psychotic illnesses, so consequently these peope are often neither 'mad' nor 'insane'.



There are some people who suffer from a psychotic illness (such as schizophrenia) who will commit sexual offences, but these are usually as a result of delusional beliefs about the victim or via command hallucinations.

[Wicked Lady]

I wonder if people who are victims of female sexual offenders under-report as much as male rape victims?



There was a theory put forward by some criminal psychologists that Jack the Ripper was a victim of childhood sexual abuse by a female which fueled his rage towards women.

[batman]

name='Wicked Lady']I wonder if people who are victims of female sexual offenders under-report as much as male rape victims?



There was a theory put forward by some criminal psycologists that Jack the Ripper was a victim of childhood sexual abuse by a female which fueled his rage towards women.

Probably.



Jack the Ripper .... now there's a case study and a half!



Possibly traumatised by some kind of abuse (or other traumatic event) when he was a kid, it festers away for years and his personality becomes twisted, he begins slowly but quickly becomes further traumatised by his own acts and goes for 'the big one', which sends him over the top into complete insanity ..... cue Whitechapel atrocities. He is unable to cope with the world he has created for himself and becomes totally unable to function as a person .... he is committed to an asylum or takes his own life.



God, I wish I knew who he was!

[Wicked Lady]

name='batman']Probably.



Jack the Ripper .... now there's a case study and a half!



Possibly traumatised by some kind of abuse (or other traumatic event) when he was a kid, it festers away for years and his personality becomes twisted, he begins slowly but quickly becomes further traumatised by his own acts and goes for 'the big one', which sends him over the top into complete insanity ..... cue Whitechapel atrocities. He is unable to cope with the world he has created for himself and becomes totally unable to function as a person .... he is committed to an asylum or takes his own life.



God, I wish I knew who he was!

Well, it's an interesting theory.



Frances Tumblety was recently touted as the most likely suspect because he repatriated back to the US after the murder of Mary Kelly and had the right level of skills, money, misogyny and narcissism to make him the 'person of interest'. The only sticking point was: after such an over-the-top killing as Mary Kelly suffered, how could a person return to 'normal' and continue running a business as he did? As a society, we tell ourselves to do something like that and then continue on is impossible. The person must be utterly insane and therefore unable to function. (Although, I don't know if Tumblety's collection of uteruses in glass jars made him completely sane).



If people like Ted Bundy, Peter Sutcliffe and Ivan Millat have taught us anything it's that people can do really evil things and then keep on going about their business.



So, my money's on Tumblety.

[batman]

name='Wicked Lady']



If people like Ted Bundy, Peter Sutcliffe and Ivan Millat have taught us anything it's that people can do really evil things and then keep on going about their business.



So, my money's on Tumblety.

Absloutely. Tumblety's as good a gamble as some, and better than most.

[Rowdon]

I liked the idea of Walter Sickert that Patricia Cornwell. It took the destruction of one of his paintings to 'prove' her wrong ... Hope somebody photographed it first.



Oh, and i think I used the word "mad' in an earlier thread, so with reference to Batman's thread above, can I say in my defense that the word "mad" isn't a medical term so it's not really limited in its meaning.



"Mad" like "crazy", is not necessarily only psychotic disorders.

[jaycad]

name='Rowdon']I liked the idea of Walter Sickert that Patricia Cornwell. It took the destruction of one of his paintings to 'prove' her wrong ... Hope somebody photographed it first.





Oh, and i think I used the word "mad' in an earlier thread, so with reference to Batman's thread above, can I say in my defense that the word "mad" isn't a medical term so it's not really limited in its meaning. "Mad" like "crazy", is not necessarily only psychotic disorders.

i found the patricia cornwell 'walter sickert' theory to be based upon an operation he had as a child,the fact he wore a red scarf occasionally,and that he painted a picture entitled 'jack the rippers bedroom' and had about as much fact as the other sickert theory.

the francis tumblety case mentioned by both batman and wicked lady is interesting with relation to the thread topic but as far as i'm aware,any sexual abuse as a child was conjecture and probably based upon neighbours memories of tumblety as a child,selling pornography?

[batman]

name='Rowdon']"Mad" like "crazy", is not necessarily only psychotic disorders.

True, but within the context of discussions about people with 'issues', those words are often used to describe anyone who behaves outside the 'norm', usually innaccurately.



It is a problem that I come across quite often both at work and in general conversation and it's a 'burr under my saddle' and someone recently said.

[darrenburnfan]

name='batman']Abuse by females (usually the mother) is often to be found in the case histories of offenders who have committed sexual offences themselves.

There was a Swedish film released in 1966 concerning this sort of thing entitled Nattlek (released in the UK as Night Games) about a single mother (Ingrid Thulin) who continually sexually abuses her young son (Jorgen Lindstrom) to the extent that as an adult, he is unable to make love to his new bride, nor consumate his marriage. There was nothing physically wrong with him, it was just that his childhood sexual experiences with his mother had seriously screwed him up emotionally and psychologically. In the film, the boy is eleven years old, but the abuse had been going on for years before that. The film was passed with an X certificate by the BBFC and released on the Rank circuit. But because of the subject matter and the present day paranoia about such things, it would probably be banned if it was made today.

[CaptainWaggett]

name='darrenburnfan']There was a Swedish film released in 1966 concerning this sort of thing entitled Nattlek (released in the UK as Night Games) about a single mother (Ingrid Thulin) who continually sexually abuses her young son (Jorgen Lindstrom) to the extent that as an adult, he is unable to make love to his new bride, nor consumate his marriage. There was nothing physically wrong with him, it was just that his childhood sexual experiences with his mother had seriously screwed him up emotionally and psychologically. In the film, the boy is eleven years old, but the abuse had been going on for years before that. The film was passed with an X certificate by the BBFC and released on the Rank circuit. But because of the subject matter and the present day paranoia about such things, it would probably be banned if it was made today.

You clearly haven't seen Ma Mere then...

[darrenburnfan]

name='CaptainWaggett']You clearly haven't seen Ma Mere then...

No, I've never seen that one, Captain. But I just looked it up by clicking on your link and it seems the actor who played the son was around 20 years old when he made the film, while the boy in Night Games was a pre-teen.

[Moor Larkin]

One of the first films I can remember ever seeing (no idea what it was, but someone here might recall) that delved very deeply into this peculiar feature of human beings was all about a woman who had developed dozens of hidden and competing personalities. It was supposed to be based on a true case in America (at the time we probably rolled our eyes along the ceiling, and remarked "Only in America") and all the abuse was perpetrated by the girls mother - as revealed in the eventual unpicking of the grown-up woman's mind by the investigating pyschologist....



Also, on a more trite level, a very popular film Carrie (1976) featured an extremely abusive mother.



I suppose the notion of females abusing outside of their own family (free from the kitchen sink?) has a sense of newness, but many old movies hinge all around the domineering or generally unhinged female characters in the household.

[darrenburnfan]

The film you refer to could have been The Three Faces Of Eve (1957), with Joanne Woodward in the title role...although the title suggests that she only had three differant personalities.

[Moor Larkin]

name='darrenburnfan']The film you refer to could have been The Three Faces Of Eve (1957), with Joanne Woodward in the title role...although the title suggests that she only had three differant personalities.

Sorry....... I was a bit overly vague... The film was an American TV movie I think, and was probably from the late 1970's, or maybe early 1980's.....



It had fairly graphic scenes illustrating the worse things that were done to the girl-child. I think that is partly what brings it to mind in this thread's context. Nothing compared to today's gorefests, but mildly shocking (unbelievable?) then.



Editing this - it has just struck me...The writer of the article that sparked this thread off has evidently never watched a noir movie, if he/she thinks women are never portrayed as guilty of criminal craziness.....

[darrenburnfan]

I can't bring the title of that one to mind, Moor Larkin. But there are probably other members who can.

[Moor Larkin]

name='darrenburnfan']I can't bring the title of that one to mind, Moor Larkin. But there are probably other members who can.

It must have been Sybil (1976) (TV) Same year as Carrie... maybe no coincidence as I gather the background was from a best-selling book initially.