TimR

Who are you talking to?

TimR

A smear of melodrama? How about a whole bucketful.

I'm not sure who you are adressing here, but I will respond:

The problem with the film is that it does not address religion or tragedy. Those issues are used not for their significance but for excitement - perhaps the very definition of melodrama.

I expect the very best from Powell and Pressburger. They have led me to expect it. Here, they reached the very peak (no pun intended) with the genius of Junge and Cardiff. But they fell far short with that story and, espcially, that plot.

samper

Steve - I was addressing TimR

We shall just agree to disagree TimR.

Third Man

Sorry , yes I was replying to your post I should of made that more clearer. I'd also add that your comment about Sister Ruth running around like something out of the Exorcist seems a bit out to me, it should be, something out of the Exorcist seems to be running about like Sister Ruth--- what came first the chicken or the egg

I think a lot of people who really like P&P's classic films up to and including A Matter of Life and Death can sometimes become a little bit disillusioned with their later work like The Red Shoes and Tales of Hoffmann personally I find them marvelous bits of artistic endeavor and like I have said before, they do make mistakes in those films but they were experimenting.

Simon

TimR

Yes, certainly. It would be very dull if we all agreed all the time.

TimR

That's what I thought - just checking.

You mention Duel in the Sun. That was ridiculed when it was released, although it went on to make a great deal of money. Peck and Jones in an epic-scale western melodrama by Selznick would equal box office in 1946. But it sure is a rotten film. Black Narcissus is a remarkable production of substandard material. I would agree that both films are overly dramatic, but there are few other comparisons.

The production of Black Narcissus is extraordinary. As I said earlier, anyone who cares about film must see the transformation of an English set into an Indian cliffside palace and the use of light and color in the first half are literally dazzling.




Well, that would certainly be a reasonable way to look at it. Either way, it is very weird.

I ran a thread on Tales of Hoffman over the weekend. I think it is an outstanding film. Last night I watched several scenes for the seventh or eighth time, and I just got the DVD last week.

The difference for me is tha the production matches the content. It is a filmed opera turned into a legend, and it works on many levels.

The Red Shoes also works, but it is not my sort of film. That is, the content and the tone are not that interesting to me. But I can respect and admire the achievement.

Third Man

Well it wasn't mine at first I had no interest in ballet whatsoever but the true test of any art form is can it interest someone who has no interest in the form or the subject it is depicting and the answer was yes , for me at least!

And as the saying goes 'many young girls at the time where bewitched by "The Red Shoes" and decided to follow the course of the ballet.

Of course I cannot verify that, but I can verify my own conversion to this art form on the back of this film.

The power of The Archers never ceases to amaze me even with such films as 'Black Narcissus' perhaps my penchant or acceptance for nuns in film, lays in the works from Ken Russell's The Devils and the many exploitational videos depicting nuns in the late 70's and early 80's. These films came later but my awareness of P&P was very much belated - anyway in many ways these films from the Archers are the biggest doorway to cinematic freedom this country has ever encountered on screen.

Simon

TimR

That is a good point. I did enjoy parts of The Red Shoes and the production made it worth seeing, but I found the central theme - that art is something to die for - questionable, at least the way it was presented.

That is my limitation, which I was aware of while I watched it. Also, the presentation of Lermontov was too extreme. It just seemed that the problems of those characters were not compelling. All that spiteful and hysterical carrying on - I thought: Why don't they just calm down and work things out?

I never entered into the film, and found myself rolling my eyes often - probably not the best attitude to take.

The Red Shoes has a large following here in the US. It is well known and loved, and is really a sort of cult film.

Interesting. It really is a powerful film in its way - as I watched, I thought "I understand why some people love it, but it isn't for me." I did enjoy watching many scenes and enjoyed the use of color a great deal. The production is excellent. But the theme was too foreign for me.

The Devils?

Oh, now that is a terrible film. Ken Russell at his most nauseating - and that is saying something. Only he could make a genial musical like The Boy Friend into an ugly satire.

We don't seem to agree on anything - but I am enjoying the conversation.

I certainly respect that.

I have mentioned several times how much I enjoy the Powell and Pressburger films, with only one exception - the subject of this thread. It has been an open door for me as well - but of course it is different for a Brit.

I must admit that A Canterbury Tale had me holding back sobs from the opening credits. I felt like a fool. A few minutes later, I wasn't holding back anymore. By the end I was exhausted.

Why? I have tried to analyze it and take it apart, and I still do not understand it. It makes no logical sense.

This beautiful film overwhelmed me - and has each time I have seen it. That scene of Alison seeing the cathedral for the first time from the meadow on the hill and then hearing the invisible travelers is perhaps the sweetest scene I have ever seen. The scene in the train as they arrive at their destination is transcendent.

I am not British. I am not a pushover for emotional drama. I resist strong emotional responses while watching films. Yet A Canterbury Tale broke through my defenses and knocked me over. Then the same thing happened with The Life and Death of Colonel Blimp.

Why?

The creators of those films were artists. I think they were also magicians.

"Home was never like this"

"Mine was"

Steve Crook

It's not just a saying.
Apart from one of the dancers in A Chorus Line saying she started dancing because of The Red Shoes there have been quite a few real dancers who have said it as well. Most notably Darcey Bussell, principal dancer with The Royal Ballet. She said she always wanted to be able to jump into a pair of point shoes and have the laces tie themselves up. And every time it's shown you can be sure that village halls up and down the country will be full of little girls wanting to dance just like Vicky Page.

I don't see it myself, but I've asked quite a few (when they were grown up a bit) who have been so afflicted/inspired why they were so determined to become a dancer when the film shows how difficult it is and how dangerous it can be. But it seems that the sheer magic and romance of the ballet dancer outweighs all of that

Steve

Steve Crook

They were.

Emeric was a master story-teller, he could craft a story like nobody else. When he was interviewed in 1970 for a retrospective in NYC he said "I think that a film should have a good story, a clear story, and it should have, if possible, something which is probably the most difficult thing - it should have a little bit of magic ... Magic being untouchable and very difficult to cast, you can't deal with it at all. You can only try to prepare some nests, hoping that a little bit of magic will slide into them."

Well the magic certainly slid into those nests for a lot of their major films and especially for A Canterbury Tale. It doesn't really have a plot as such - but magic doesn't have to be explainable or have a reason. It just works

And Micky Powell, well, he was just Micky. A 100% genius and an artist who found it very hard to make a bad film - although he just about managed occasionally.

But the real magic was in the partnership which was so much greater than the sum of the parts. And the way they ran The Archers, attracting the very best people in every department and letting them have their head, encouraging them to do their very best work.

Steve

Third Man

...and many people have the opinion that Darcy Bussell has ended her ballet career too early, perhaps the effect of The Red Shoes while not only inspiring her warned her of the dangers of carrying on to long.

Simon

Third Man

Yes it does seem to have that effect on me as well, everything our countries fought for in the Second World War seems to be summed up in that film and I mean that - it does not just fall into mawkishness which would of been very easy to do but holds off those cheap feelings for more of an astute and courageous outlook and yet the portentous future seems just around the corner, especially during the cathedral scene.

Recently I watched one-after-the other A Canterbury Tale and the first half-hour of Saving Private Ryan, I just thought it seemed to fit so well.

Simon

Third Man

Sorry I'm in and out of thread as I'm on the move but yes, If we all agreed life would be boring, I like to disagree as well, as some people can testify

Simon

TimR

Yes, indeed - well said. On this we fully agree.

I only realized recently that I was identifying with the character of Bob Johnson, even though we have nothing in common except our American citizenship. He represents the friendly outsider - and it is one of the many great successes of the film, including John Sweet's performance, that it conveys exactly what it is like for someone from the US visiting Britain.

That is a good idea. I can see how they would fit very well.

"Home was never like this"

"Mine was"

TimR

I am currently reading Michael Powell: Interviews, edited by David Lazar. I am struck again and again by Powell's criticism of A Canterbury Tale, saying how they missed the boat on that one. That remains my favorite of their films, followed closely by The Life and Death of Colonel Blimp. It is curious that he would see it that way.

"Home was never like this"

"Mine was"