The Dam Busters

[Steve Crook]

Im not so sure about that Steve, certainly there was a naivety about using the word ,I just think the concept of offensive racism being associate with certain terms or words had not been established or recognised in those days.In the film Zulu, Bromhead as played by Michael Caine refers to " cowardly blacks" , and cringingly uses the term "fuzzy wuzzies".

There certainly was a naivety about the use of the word. But I doubt that most people who called their black cat or dog "Nigger" did so because they thought it was like a black person.

But nowadays the word seems to be the worst swear word that can be used in America - when it's used by a white person, whatever it's actually referring to. The meaning of and the attitude to the word has changed drastically in the last decade or so.

As such, there is no need to have audiences distracted and annoyed by something that is nothing to do with the story being told in this film. They should just drop the name. Either don't mention the dog's name or call it something totally different.

Steve

[RogerThornhill]

Whoever takes the part of Gibson maybe he could whisper "Don't mention the N word, I mentioned it once but I think I got away with it"

[DB7]

modern audiences would find it difficult to relate to our heroes indulging in a form of casual/ naive racism which was possibly the norm for that era, I think the name of the dog speaks volumes about the attitudes of the time, so by changing the name of the dog the story can conveniently just not address those issues,

Indeed, if they are to truly update the film then issues of WWII 'terror bombing', the human cost (both in flying crew and death toll of forced labor) and the strategic outcome (not very effective) should be addressed - but wont be. An Oliver Stone could probably make a thought-provoking film but I expect this to be helmed by jobbing director (just checked, it's a debut director). Brave aircrew and an interesting technical exercise but overall I'm not sure it was worth the cost.

[Steve Crook]

Indeed, if they are to truly update the film then issues of WWII 'terror bombing', the human cost (both in flying crew and death toll of forced labor) and the strategic outcome (not very effective) should be addressed - but wont be. An Oliver Stone could probably make a thought-provoking film but I expect this to be helmed by jobbing director (just checked, it's a debut director). Brave aircrew and an interesting technical exercise but overall I'm not sure it was worth the cost.

They should also address the true value of the raid to the war effort. It was a great propaganda coup and a very brave thing to do by some extraordinary airmen, but didn't actually disrupt production in the Ruhr all that much, only for a few months. It also killed a lot of civilians, including a lot of Allied PoWs who were working in the area

Steve

[Santonix]

I think it was one the most daring raids of the war. It was a much needed morale booster during a very dark period in our history and went down well in the U.S.A. I think it was almost a pivotal moment in the war, as from then on things began to improve for us. It also made the Germans divert arms and men to set up heavy defenses around other strategic targets they had previously believed to be untouchable. The dams were repaired within a few months, but the lakes took some time to refill to their former levels. The loss of life in these situations is always to be deeply regretted.

It also gave us a wonderful film.

[DB7]

I think it was one the most daring raids of the war. It was a much needed morale booster during a very dark period in our history and went down well in the U.S.A. I think it was almost a pivotal moment in the war, as from then on things began to improve for us. It also made the Germans divert arms and men to set up heavy defenses around other strategic targets they had previously believed to be untouchable. The dams were repaired within a few months, but the lakes took some time to refill to their former levels. The loss of life in these situations is always to be deeply regretted.

It also gave us a wonderful film.

Pearl Harbour had already taken place and the US had declared war. By this time the tide was already turning for Germany on the Eastern Front and in North Africa and plans were underway for an allied landing. The St Nazaire raid was similarly brave, probably bonkers brave, but did at least achieve its goal despite a desperate loss of life.

[moonfleet]

Put it in the context of the 1940s. It was common to call black dogs or cats "Nigger" and it (usually) had nothing to do with the modern usage or any direct connection to black people. Probably derived from the French nègre (Negro) it is just a reference to the animal's colour, nothing else.

Steve

In french, the use of nègre or negro is pejorative and offensive, it's an heritage trademark from colonialism





La Revue nègre, affiche de Paul Colin,
pour un spectacle musical à Paris en 1925.

[Steve Crook]

In french, the use of nègre or negro is pejorative and offensive, it's an heritage trademark from colonialism

It is now, but was it meant as an offensive word when those events were put on? Josephine Baker was very popular in France



Josephine Baker in Banana Skirt from the Folies Bergère production "Un Vent de Folie"

Steve

[paul kersey]

On a different slant, does anybody have any comments on the choice of Stephen Fry as screenwriter?. Is he a big name in the States ?. I would have chosen Anthony Horrowitz, due to his superb work on "Foyles War".

[moonfleet]

It is now, but was it meant as an offensive word when those events were put on?

Steve

I think that when in times of colonialism the word had in itself (and in the mind of the white civilisated) an offensive and pejorative meaning too, was'nt it to point a so called "sub-human category" ??!!....

The Revue Nègre with Joséphine Baker exploited the "exotic" image

Another french meaning of nègre is used for a ghost writer

[Steve Crook]

I think that when in times of colonialism the word had in itself (and in the mind of the white civilisated) an offensive and pejorative meaning too, was'nt it to point a so called "sub-human category" ??!!....

There is another n-word that was more offensive & pejorative nowadays. Negro is the polite version that nobody is supposed to find offensive (or not in the 1940s)

The Revue Nègre with Joséphine Baker exploited the "exotic" image

Or was it Josephine exploiting her audience?

That's why I would never go to a lap dancing club. i don't like to see people being sexually exploited - like the poor men in the audience

Steve

[Hugo]

I have just seen the BFI's restored print of THE GREAT WHITE SILENCE, the film of Captain Scott's ill-fated expedition to the South Pole. The expedition ship, The Terra Nova, had a black ship's cat called - you've guessed it - Nigger. It appears in a couple of scenes. I think it is quite commendable that the BFI, that epitome of political correctness, has made no attempt to disguise this fact.

[Marky B]

Any news about the development of the remake?
Ta Ta
Marky B