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President Donald Trump

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  • #46
    You are certainly 'casting stones'.
    And Trump totally deserves them. Anyone who wanted to know how he would be as President only needed to look at his past conduct. And he's continually shown himself to be an over-privileged,racist, misogynist, narcissistic, egotistical liar, with the emotional self control and attention span of a six year old, who lies like others breath, who claims success for everything, but blames everyone else for his ills. He is, in short, a horrible human being. And he's being an awful POTUS.

    And we all pointed it out last year, continually. Hillary Clinton pointed it out, and said something else last July:

    "A man you can bait with a tweet is not a man we can trust with nuclear weapons." —Hillary

    Which brings us onto Mark O's Panglossian/deluded view of Trump and nuclear weapons. Putting aside the idea that Trump is a 'family man' (his history strongly suggests that description fits only where it touches), it tells you nothing about how he feels about their use or his understanding of a very complex situation. Frighteningly, he's been transfixed by nukes for some years, , and that article does not make happy reading. It also doesn't mention that when he took office, he apparently straightforwardly asked 'why can't we use them?' when he was being briefed about nuclear weapons - he see's them as just a big bomb.

    Right now, you have two people in N.Korea and Washington who are both egotistical authoritarians who like to live in their own reality with bad hairdos (seriously, what is that about?) who like to shout at the world without too much thought - what could go wrong? This is a man who apparently has a meltdown in the situation room

    Trump doesn't listen to anyone - he thinks he knows everything, when in reality pretty much anyone who has the Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists frontpage probably has a better view overall of the situation.

    BTW - the Bulletin mentioned this website, which I hadn't come across before, called 'Nukemap'.
    It allows you to model nuclear detonations for any size warhead at any location - truly chilling. The one of London after a terrorist bomb is very scary, but if you want to see the view form South Korea, model a 10kt N.Korean warhead on Seoul - approx. 77k dead, and 268k injured. Thats the reality, even if Trump wants to tweet threats - people will die.


    • #47
      Originally posted by Bonekicker View Post
      ...over-privileged, racist, misogynist, narcissistic, egotistical liar... a six year old, who lies...short, a horrible... awful...
      You omitted the word 'evil' from your fulmination.

      Originally posted by John Hamilton View Post
      ..Britain's dwindling 'world policeman' role..
      Britain needs to do more than huff and puff and rant if it wants to interfere in foreign countries. Go and protest to the US Ambassador. Demand trade sanctions. Demand that the Kardashians and all that other brainless US bilge be banned from our shores.


      • #48
        You omitted the word 'evil' from your fulmination.
        'Evil' is an overused word, and can be seen as hyperbole. But just looking at his conduct both before and while being POTUS, my description of him does not seem unfair.

        Why would the lovely Melania marry (and remain with) a man who is alledgedly awful, etc; when she could have practically any man she wanted ?
        The fact that he was wealthy enough to have a private jet that she could drape herself over dressed in very little to be photographed might be one answer to that, if you are cynical.

        Mark O - I'd love to know why you think that Trump and his family are such paragons of virtue? You endlessly repeat such thoughts, but its reaching the point of personality cult, so I'm mystified as to what you can see what others cannot.

        Don Jr is basically employed by Dad, and is bright enough to actually write an email welcoming any dirt on Hillary Clinton from the Russian government. Which is amazingly stupid, as his his repeated screwups with Twitter, which tend to make bad situations worse. His brother, Eric, apparently makes Don Jr look like the smart one. Ivanaka probably is the smart one (the footage where Trump senior raves about how he'd date her if she wasn't his daughter do make you shudder), but her expertise is limited to hawking her own line of jewelry, clothes and shoes (apparently ripping off other people's designs is a regular occurance). Those items are not US made, needless to say. However, she has no experience in government, and her presence in the West Wing is simply unprecedented.

        Jared has no experience of government (again, unprecedented), and benefited from a rich father, who served time (and tried to blackmail his own brother into exiting the family real estate business by having him caught with a hooker), and almost certainly got Jared into Harvard by paying out a large donation to the college. Jared is more far likely to go to prison for conspiring with the Russians to swing the election than he is to be POTUS, especially if Bannon goes after him - they hate each other. And Jared's advice often stinks - he was the one who advised Trump to fire Comney.

        Those are the offspring from Ivana Trump - his first wife. He cheated on her by going to live openly with Marla Marples, who would become his second wife, and having a daughter, Tiffany. She stays out of the spotlight, and it seems that she is not that close to her father, judging by her body language in the aftermath of at least one debate.

        He then cheated on Maples by taking up Melania as his mistress (and she was probably not alone), before finally marrying her. They have a son, Barron. She conspicuously stayed behind in NY with Barron when Trump moved to the WH (which he thinks is a 'dump'). She was pregant with Barron at the time the incidents described in the 'Access Hollywood' tape took place. In other words, he was trying to grope women at the time his wife was expecting their child. And she claimed credit for writing a speech which had obviously been copied from one given by Michelle Obama.

        The kids have really done nothing but work for dad (apart from Tiffany), or ride the family name. They havn't gone off the rails, unlike Trump's brother Freddy, who died from alcoholism at just 43.

        The all-American family indeed.


        • #49
          Originally posted by Bonekicker View Post
          Evil' is an overused word, and can be seen as hyperbole. ...
          So is he evil or not?


          • #50
            No one here has mentioned the latest controversy.


            • #51
              Originally posted by Mark O

              Yes, I agree if someone hurts his feelings, he has the potential to fly off the handle, but Donnie is a family man first and foremost, so he'll think of them, and won't do anything rash I'm sure.
              It's not a matter of hurt feelings. He throws a wobbly whenever anyone disagrees with him - you only have to read his vitriolic tweets to see that.

              As for being a family man, I really hope you will read and take on board what Bonekicker has posted above, because it's all been pointed out to you before in the old forum.


              • #52
                Originally posted by Shirley Brahms View Post

                ...I really hope you will read and take on board what Bonekicker has posted above, because it's all been pointed out to you before in the old forum.
                I admire your optimism, Shirley


                • #53
                  Originally posted by will View Post
                  No one here has mentioned the latest controversy.
                  They're coming too thick and fast at the moment. I can't keep up.

                  Originally posted by Shirley Brahms View Post

                  ...because it's all been pointed out to you before in the old forum.
                  Fat chance! Mark has a rather selective memory.


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by will View Post
                    No one here has mentioned the latest controversy.
                    Feel free, Will!


                    • #55
                      So is he evil or not?
                      Getting someone to answer a simplistic and polarising 'yes or no' question in order to use it as a possible weapon? Like thats never been used on the internet before...

                      Seriously - time will tell, but his defence of neo-Nazi's ('some decent people/'both sides') and his obsession with destroying Obamacare, which would potentially take away the healthcare of 68% of US children on low incomes does suggest a certain disregard for morality. I'm not going to say he's evil - because doing so is simply dumb. As is the question.

                      Whatever, call me old-fashioned, but I'm not keen on Ms. Hillary because she gives the impression of being anti-American family.
                      And once again you show yourself to be no more than a regurgitator of internet meme's and the Daily Mail, because even you would find it difficult to explain what that actually means. 'Anti American family'? In what actual way?

                      Trump children were raised, no drink, no drugs, no tobacco, no tattoos, body piercings, values passed on to their own offspring (I admit I wasn't aware of Tiffany).
                      So you are so knowledgeable about Trump's kids that you were unaware of exactly how many he had? (although I wager good money that he's none too sure either). And Tiffany gave a speech at the GOP Convention, so its not as if she's in hiding.

                      Which values have been passed onto the kids? Extreme nepotism in employment (Trump Sr, the boys and Ivanaka), using your family name alone to get favours and business (certainly Ivanka, and the others probably as well), being bailed out by your dad when business deals go wrong (Don Jr), or having your dad threaten unhappy club members with being thrown out if they complained about how you ran the place (Eric) ? Or how to run up huge debts and be bailed out by the banks and your dad (Trump Senior). Its not just a family thing - Kushner also owes a huge amount of money on a real estate deal where he vastly overpaid for a property

                      The art of the deal looks more like the art of the grift. Eric and Don Jr are often referred to as 'Qusay and Uday' (Saddam Hussein's sons), but in truth, the whole family are Fredo's.

                      As for that ladies 'joke', which is worse -

                      Trump defending neo-Nazi's,

                      Saying about John McCain at a rally, '“He’s not a war hero, he was a war hero because he was captured. I like people who weren’t captured.”

                      Tweeting that 'Jeb Bush has to like the Mexican Illegals because of his wife'

                      telling the world that he groped women and tried to sleep with a women 'like a bitch' while his third wife was pregnant with his child',

                      Talking about Mexico during a campaign speech 'They’re sending people that have lots of problems, and they’re bringing those problems with us. They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists.'

                      or humiliating a disabled reporter during a campaign speech?

                      She just held up a fake head.

                      And those are just three out of hundreds of things he has done. Depraved? Shall we talk about the pee pee' tape, or perhaps the charge of underage rape, or the admission that he would 'accidently' wander into the dressing rooms of models while they were changing for shows. If you want depraved, then Trump has a very long history of it.

                      Last edited by Bonekicker; 21st August 2017, 01:34 PM.


                      • #56
                        It's utterly baffling how his supporters ignore all those things and insist he's a great guy.


                        • #57
                          Now it has been mentioned. His amazing defense of "good people" marching with the Nazi's and the Klan. He's now sinking in the polls to the mid and low thirties and now even Republicans are running away from him. He is going to have a rally in Phoenix and it looks like he may announce a pardon for ex sheriff Joe Apairo who was convicted for violating a court order regarding illegal immigrants.


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by Mark O

                            Whatever, call me old-fashioned, but I'm not keen on Ms. Hillary because she gives the impression of being anti-American family.
                            Mark, that is preposterous! You obviously know nothing about her. As a lawyer, she specialised in children's law and family policy and has maintained that interest ever since. Look her up in Wikipedia and you will find the following and much, much more.

                            During her second year at Yale Law School, she worked at the Yale Child Study Center, took on cases of child abuse at Yale-New Haven Hospital, and volunteered at New Haven Legal Services to provide free legal advice for the poor.

                            She and some other women founded a rape crisis centre in a town in Arkansas.

                            During her postgraduate study, she served as staff attorney for the Children's Defense Fund in Cambridge, Massachusetts, and as a consultant to the Carnegie Council on Children.

                            In 1977 she co-founded Advocates for Children and Families - a non-profit advocacy organisation which encourages public policy in Arkansas that will benefit children and their families. Also in 1977 she published a paper "Children's Policies: Abandonment and Neglect", and in 1979 "Children's Rights: A Legal Perspective".

                            While First Lady of Arkansas she chaired the Rural Health Advisory Committee, and secured federal funds to expand medical facilities in Arkansas's poorest areas.

                            There's lots more, but you get the picture..... Or should.

                            Hillary the Mom


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by Mark O

                              If Katie Griffin's so called 'joke' appealed to the Democrats, and gave them some sort of perverted gratification, then count me out, I'll stick with supporting the Republican party, at least they don't make depraved fun of people.
                              It wasn't KATIE Griffin, it was KATHY Griffin! Her sick stunt was deplorable, and so is your above comment. No one has supported what she did, she has been condemned on both sides. She is an odious, obnoxious woman. CNN has sacked her, she is finished. Good riddance.


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by Mark O

                                I was just saying like, I don't regard what I said as deplorable...

                                I'm glad to read she has been dismissed, didn't know she worked for CNN, thought she was a Comedienne in the Joan Rivers mould, she's certainly not welcome in my country...

                                Hillary doing what she did for the needy is all very admirable, but she still would have implemented a free and open border at Mexico, on becoming President, there's enough weaponry and drugs floating around the USA as it is, and Democrats want to add to the situation ?...

                                Utter madness...
                                First of all, you haven't acknowledged it was KATHY, not KATIE. In fairness to the actress Katie Griffin, I think you should do so, furthermore apologise to her, never mind whether or not she actually gets to read it. It would just be the decent thing to do.

                                Secondly, you have a habit of skimming over an issue you are wrong about and landing on another issue. At least you have acknowledged that what Hillary has done for the needy is admirable, but you stop short of admitting it was wrong to say she was "anti-American family". Given her history, and her closeness to her own family, it's a ridiculous thing to say. Is it so difficult to admit when you are wrong, and apologise? She did not deserve your insult. And it wasn't only the needy, it was children and families to whom she has dedicated many years of her life to help. She is a wonderful woman and a high achiever and in that regard it makes no difference what party she holds allegiance to.

                                Thirdly, your comment that KG's 'joke 'appealed to the Democrats and gave them some sort of perverted gratification, and that they make depraved fun of people - how could that not be deplorable? You have no grounds to say such a thing. You constantly come out with any rubbish that pops into your unthinking head as long as it denigrates the Democrats. Again, the least you can do is admit you were wrong and acknowledge that there was widespread bipartisan criticism. But I'm not holding my breath.

                                Lastly, regarding the Mexican border, weapons and drugs, someone else can take you up on that (again!) if they feel so inclined. I don't.

                                I intend to respond to the Tammy Wynette and baking cookies comments in due course. Right now I need a break from all this.
                                A cuppa tea, a Bex and a good lie down!


                                • CarO1987
                                  CarO1987 commented
                                  Editing a comment
                                  I say as Brazilian that I am that bad I understand the situations arising from my country as I would say from the USA